Traveller-digest    Wednesday, October 20 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1230



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re Traveller and the modern era
SFO Bay Area Traveller Board & Miniatures Game Meet
Re Tech
Cardboard Heroes (was: Re: Traveller Auction Update)
RE: Important: The Kinunir Warrant!
GT: Starships (was Re: GTL9 Standard Components)
Re: The Eternal Legionaire
Re: Traveller Auction Update
Re: Supporting our game
Re: Traveller Auction Update 
RE: Ditzie's Warrant Followup
Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!
Re: Zot!
Re: Space Opera?
Re: Amorphous Aliens
Re: Re Traveller and the modern era

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:11:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Traveller and the modern era

>> I now have to face the possibility that Traveller may not be
>> entertainment-in-a-vacuum -- that its appeal may be due to the 1970's,
>> with all its hard-SF influences and veteran wargamers.
>
>That much I do tend to agree with.  One thing I wonder about is why
>wargaming as a hobby went into a decline.  Some people point to the rise
>of computer gaming to explain this, but the decline of wargaming predated
>the availability of similarly complex computer substitutes by at least a
>decade.
<imho>
one of the things that would appear to have helped kill war-games was the
anti-war movement in the US (see also the Vietnam "Police Action" aka
undeclared war); wargaming has been linked to officer training since the
1880's. The US service acadamies all have wargaming available in the
curriculum. (In fact, the US Army's Command and General Staff College
correspondence course includes an extended "Pre-porgramed PBM".

The wargaming industry seems to have been tapering off bvy 1975, and really
dead by about '80, except as adjucts to roleplaying or history classes;
not-so-serious wargames (Wabbit Wampage, Supremacy) were really trying to
fill the same niche as Monopoly and Risk.. an evening's entertainment.

Note that most of those with the finances to afford to buy US$20-$40 boxed
sets in the mid-late 70's were likely to be the same people who protested
the war, or had fought and were burned out.

Also there were those of us too young to have remembered the 'Nam except as
an occasional TV story... amongst many of my friends through high school,
it was only those who's parets DIDN'T fight in the 'Nam and didn't protest
who were "allowed" to play serious wargames. (In my case, my dad was a
REMF, and an officer, and being medical service corps, he had a somewhat
les than REMF attitude.)

One of the groups I used to game with (SFB & Traveller...) was composed of
2 ex-marines, one ex-navy and one ex-army nam vets, and myself, a child
born during the war. They wouldn't play anything that was close to the Nam
in tone, and didn't even like to do ground combat simulatiojns, but blowing
starships up was great fun. I did some SFB playtest stuff with them;
getting them to playtest the ground-combat boardgame was like pulling
teeth... it took whiskey as an anesthetic.

>> If Traveller needs to flex to survive, then so be it.  A Traveller
>> that can accept the new trends while keeping the old might be
>> fine.  And Traveller might have to flow with the times, because
>> it is entertainment, and entertainment is not an objective reality.
>
>The problem one runs into here is that Traveller is and always has been
>more than a rule set -- which is good, because it's had at least four
>major and quite distinct rule sets, while remaining unmistakeably
>Traveller throughout.  Traveller's primary attraction (for most people) is
>its richly detailed background.

- -> CT sold me on the setting, but not the rules.
- -> MT sold me on the rules, but not quite on the rebellion setting.
- -> TNE failed all my tests for desireablity...

The background is great (at least, AFAIC) up through 1115. I like the
1115-1128 stuff well enough to use it, but it doesn't logically track all
that well when compared to either CT or MT rules materials (vs background
materials). To me, Traveller always was and ever shall be the 3rd imperium,
MT, and the weave of Zhodani, Aslan, Vargr, Newt, Virush, and Domain of
Denebers , and the ever present and powerfull nobility that I was
introduced to prior to anyone in the group actually possessing a set of the
rules (including the GM! Eiditic Memory on his part allowed for him to
"steal" the materials without removing them from the store physically; what
players needed, he copied down by hand, including his house rules).

Really, that blend is missing in TNE; the setting there is almost (but not
quite) a different entity.

>Unfortunately, that background is fundamentally driven by the
>technological assumptions underlying Traveller.  Change these in any
>nontrivial way -- through introducing more realistic projections of
>computer technology, or biotech, or nanotech, for example -- and the
>canonical history of the Imperium, and most of the source materials
>related to it, cease to make any sense whatsoever.

Hmm.. DGP's TD had some cybernetics rules for MT, as did TNE's FF&S1 for
TNE. Limited, yes.Nothing Ubermenschenish. I used them in play, with no
problems.

Biotech and Nanotech, in any sane society, will be carefully controlled; an
accident could be catastrophic. The US government is starting to get
paranoid about biotech and nanotech already. There have been several moves
to outlaw biotech research involving the human genome; AFAIK, very little
has been passed.

Also, no one knows just how far current trends in technology will continue.
Many existing technologies are still 10 years from common adoption; cost,
social factors, and environmental issues prevent implementation in many
cases (forex: Gallium Arsenide chips (environmental), <0.2 micron masking
techniques for semiconductors (cost), RISC based computing in the WinTel
world (social, due to the Microsoft near-monoply and not supporting moves
to non-x86 architechtures, which are incremental evolutions of a 1970's
base architechture)). Somehow, I doubt we'll actually hit vingean
singularity before we have off-world populations.

William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:29:41 -0700
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
Subject: SFO Bay Area Traveller Board & Miniatures Game Meet

We will be meeting for Traveller board and miniatures games on 
30 October at 11:00.  The meeting place is in Alum Rock (near the
I-680 and Hwy 101 intersection).

Email me if you are interested.
Kristian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:23:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Tech

>> Nanotech need not be nanites-run-amok.  Set bounds on it and
>> explain how it works in the Imperium and why.  Allow it in strictly
>> controlled areas -- tiny, nanetic "clean boxes" -- becuase they're so
>> dang good that they'll even process metals, wastes, organics, flesh
>> and bone if set free.  A virus indeed.  Make them converters of
>> raw materials only, not builders.  Banana peels into gold, or some
>> such alchemy.
>
>Even limited to this extent, it'll completely change commerce. Raw
>materials can be extracted from country rock, or re-processed from
>trash. BTW, fusion reactors have the potential to do the same.
>
>So you wind up with an economy that bears no resemblance to anything
>players are familar with. It'd resemble some cyberpunk stuff, but it
>*wouldn't* give us the Imperium.
>
>As for cybernetics and computer stuff, you have the standard Traveller
>problem of explaing why progress has been so *slow*. Hell, we can do
>stuff now that I don't think *any* version of CT allowed. Or only
>allowed at very high TLs.
>
Additionally, it would tend to preclude any non-isolationist communities
below the prevailing TL, due to being able to rapidly extract the resources
for infrastructure imporvements. A few off-worlders coming in and putting
in the needed hardware to upgrade the locals to just below prevailing tech,
and then running it as a company store situation, could concieveably get
enough popular support (provided the ompany store is bening on food and
luxury items, but really hard on infrastructural goods) to make a go.

William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:43:54 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Cardboard Heroes (was: Re: Traveller Auction Update)

Dear Folks -

Keith wrote -
>><< keith@sjgames.com is going for the Cardboard Heroes??!!!
>You bet, and with any luck, I'll own them.
>
>Do you know how out of print those things are?

Mmph, maybe I should scan some in and send them to you.

>Nope.  It's a case of me wanting them because I'm a sucker for
>anything with the word Traveller stamped on it.

Hmmm, sounds familiar...

>...they mentioned
>the desire for Traveller Cardboard Heroes to be reprinted and spaceship
>deck plans (for your Cardboard Heroes/miniatures) to be released.
>Personally, I am all for more Traveller products and I think those are
>excellent ideas.

Agreed.

>Of course, I am just a web-monkey, so I don't have an
>real impact on sales or marketing decisions.

...but what an obvious piece of bait left dangling out to see if the TML
bites!! (presumably then forwarding all the
"yes-please-we-want-them-RIGHT-NOW!" messages direct to Steve  ;-)

BTW it worked - "Harumph. Why, yes-I'd-buy-them".  ;-)

Now you just need to ask us for the type, quantity, quality and format we'd
be willing to purchase!

Here's a start:
     A PC's pack, similar to the original
     An Aliens pack, featuring Aslan, Droyne, Hivers, K'kree, Vargr,
Virushi
     A military pack, featuring Marines, Army, Navy, Scouts, Zho's in
combat armour
     Ship deckplans (already mentioned) in a nice large-size publication
     Blank deckplan tiles AND
     Ship "items" for use on blank deckplan tiles, such as chairs,
consoles, 'freshers, beds, tables, etc.

OK, folks, all yours to add to!

(BTW, Keith, did SJG take note of our earlier poll about marketable items -
eg caps with Imperial insignia, etc?? Loren, hello?)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:56:15 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Important: The Kinunir Warrant!

And probably bill those of us that cause it, huh?

:)

I sluff of for a day on answering e-mail, and Chris pulls this!  I 'bout
choked on my beer!  Maybe I'll take an hour off of Starports tomorrow for a
Ditzie cartoon ;)

Jesse





> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Micheal D.
> Peters
> Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 2:46 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Important: The Kinunir Warrant!
>
>
> Well,
>
> Now I finally realize how the Imperium fell on HARD TIMES!
>
> P.S. Thats's at least the fourth key board that a Ditzie related post has
> killed! I am going to start recording how and why they died, so that I can
> bury these poor brave soilders with the proper honers!
>
> Mike
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net>
> To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 12:01 PM
> Subject: Important: The Kinunir Warrant!
>
>
> > The final resting place of the Imperial Warrant that was on the Kinunir
> has
> > been hotly debated for many years. Some say Norris used it to keep the
> peace
> > and stability of the Spinward Marches. Others swear that they
> were part of
> > the adventuring party that found it and they used it mainly to
> circumvent
> > local authorities when they got into fusion powered bar brawls.
> >
> > The truth is much, much more frightening. A deep cover IISS Scout was
> > recently found, a victim of "spacing," in the [CLASSIFIED] Subsector. A
> > small holocube was found in his stomach. Go to
> > http://www.pil.net/~semo/warrant.jpg to see what was on it. Please pass
> this
> > on to other loyal and patriotic Imperial citizens and let them
> know what a
> > threat to Imperial security this is.
> >
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:58:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: GT: Starships (was Re: GTL9 Standard Components)

> From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Re: GTL9 Standard Components
> 
> >>More GTL9 (and lower) components will be released with GT Starships.
> >>(Further details will have to come from Chris Thrash, as per usual
> >>non-disclosure rules.) Gearheads who can't wait for the book are strongly
> >>encouraged to subscribe to Pyramid and participate in the playtesting.
> >
> >Hmm, I have a feeling that would be very limiting on my ability to post
> >designs
> >of my own. I am quite keen to get as many GTL9 modules and designs into the
> >public domain as possible before Starships comes out. I would have thought
> >independent design is as useful as design verification.

For the record, now that I am writing GT: Starships I am deliberately not
reading any TML posts on component or starship design. I don't want to
unconsciously plagiarize something.  On the other hand, there are only so
many approaches to most components so the solutions are bound to look
similar.

> True. But verification of proposed official designs is more useful. Given
> your comments about GT errors, you should probably be participating in the
> Gt Starships playtest.

I agree: I would much rather fix the sourcebook before it comes out. The
only way I can accept those comments is through the official playtest
process.

> Another point is that once your design is out in the public domain SJG
> probably won't use it in their product, which means that the best designs
> may be rendered unusable. As more readers probably read the official books
> than the TML, your audience is larger if you get in print.

I can't use *anything* that isn't submitted directly to me, for copyright
reasons. Anyone who is interested in submitting needs to read the
disclaimers on my website:

<http://www.io.com/~thrash/starship.html>

It's not quite as bad as Rob suggests -- I have been able to ignore the
TML being "public domain", for example -- but SJ Games would clearly
prefer all submissions be created specifically for them.
 
> >What's the general view of play testers and refuseniks, particularly
> >gearheads?
> >Is it more fun in (hands tied) than out (hands free)?

The compilor's view is that this sourcebook is supposed to be a
collaboration. If you don't care to help, that's okay, but don't complain
too much about it afterward.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:21:28 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: The Eternal Legionaire

Dear Folks -

Paul just sent me Andrew Keith's material, and I was finally able to create
a response to his news. I told him:

"Thanks very much for the file, I'll go through it later at leisure."

"I've been trying to word an expression of grief over the news you brought,
but I feel like Loren in that it's almost impossible to know how to say it.
My experience of Andrew's work is that it was always unique, of the highest
order, and possessed of a clear vision of what the Traveller universe was
like. I was very moved to hear of his passing."

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:01:10 -0700
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Auction Update

At 12:04 AM 10/20/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
>> Do you know how out of print those things are?  The Warehouse doesn't
>> exactly have secret copies to sell to every employee who begs for it.
>> Perhaps they do, but I haven't convinced them to sell them to me yet. 
>
>They didn't teach you the secret Illuminati handshake yet????

I am only initiated into the third circle of employment.  My Zelator
Adeptus Minor sash and handshake are not as impressive as those deeper in
the Inner Circle.  Besides, I don't live in Austin, so I have a hard time
participating in the staff rituals.

"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn fnord."


>> I was at the Berkeley Distributor Open House a few weekends ago, and I got
>> to talk to quite a few retail people.  Amongst the very postive comments
>> that they had about GURPS Traveller, and how it is selling, they mentioned
>> the desire for Traveller Cardboard Heroes to be reprinted and spaceship
>> deck plans (for your Cardboard Heroes/miniatures) to be released.
>
>This would work for me, too.  Especially if I could still use the plans for 
>my CT/MT stuff as well.

Well, I would guess that whatever format it came out in, it would probably
have hex-grids.  It's what GURPS has used since day one, and the G:Trav
deckplans currently written up are in hex format as well.  Of course, it's
pretty difficult to talk about the format of a product that might never see
the light of day. :)


_________________________________________________________

Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com

 IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:35:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Supporting our game

In mail you write:

>> Besides, one can still use *huge* segments of the Imperial background
>> without psionics. I strongly disagree with the position that Traveller *is*
>> the Imperial background. Despite my distaste for it some days, CT's
>> character generation system is more Traveller for me than a number of
>> elements of DGP canon.
>
> Even if you were to limit it to the Imperial regions, it's huge. I could
> easily see regions having their own technological flavor, even in the same
> period of history. And there is a canon framework from which to work. The
> Solomani are more advanced in bio/med, less so in gravitics, the Vilani
> advanced in gravitics, less so in bio/med, etc.

I think what is being overlooked here is a very *basic* principle.
Alas, it tends to be overlooked a lot, not just in gaming. 

"You can't change just *one* thing."

To put it another way, everything interrelates. And changing *anything*
has *some* effect on everything else. 

All too often, these side effects get overlooked. Until some bright
player points out a logical consequence of the change and the GM has to
scramble to patch the hole. And often the patch has side effects of its
own. Pretty soon you've got this ugly mess of patches upon patches. 

That's why you have to think things thru. And be aware *in advance* of
the holes a change can put in the background.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 02:36:21 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Auction Update 

> At 12:04 AM 10/20/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >> Do you know how out of print those things are?  The Warehouse doesn't
> >> exactly have secret copies to sell to every employee who begs for it.
> >> Perhaps they do, but I haven't convinced them to sell them to me yet. 
> >
> >They didn't teach you the secret Illuminati handshake yet????
> 
> I am only initiated into the third circle of employment.  My Zelator
> Adeptus Minor sash and handshake are not as impressive as those deeper in
> the Inner Circle.  Besides, I don't live in Austin, so I have a hard time
> participating in the staff rituals.
> 
> "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn fnord."

Careful.  I just seen the fnord.

> >> I was at the Berkeley Distributor Open House a few weekends ago, and I got
> >> to talk to quite a few retail people.  Amongst the very postive comments
> >> that they had about GURPS Traveller, and how it is selling, they mentioned
> >> the desire for Traveller Cardboard Heroes to be reprinted and spaceship
> >> deck plans (for your Cardboard Heroes/miniatures) to be released.
> >
> >This would work for me, too.  Especially if I could still use the plans for 
> >my CT/MT stuff as well.
> 
> Well, I would guess that whatever format it came out in, it would probably
> have hex-grids.  It's what GURPS has used since day one, and the G:Trav
> deckplans currently written up are in hex format as well.  Of course, it's
> pretty difficult to talk about the format of a product that might never see
> the light of day. :)

Considering the product would be cheep to produce and make a decent buck in sales, I couldn't see why they wouldn't go for it.

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:08:28 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Ditzie's Warrant Followup

LOL!
Good series dude!

Jesse




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Chris
> Seamans
> Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 2:42 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Ditzie's Warrant Followup
>
>
> My apologies to everybody on the list who lost their keyboards as a result
> of my posting. Personally, I'm just happy that the issue of the Kinunir
> Warrant has finally been settled.
>
> I have decided to make amends. Anyone who needs cash for a replacement
> keyboard should hit the following link:
>
> http://www.pil.net/~semo/credit3.jpg
>
> [A geeky note about the image: No, that's not actually Margaret I, that's
> Suzanna Beckford and it's a detail from a portrait by Sir Joshua Reynolds,
> painted in 1756. The painting is currently located in London's
> Tate Gallery.
> Keep this in mind if you happen to visit the Tate, please don't argue with
> the staff.]
>
> "I'm sorry sir, that's Suzanna Beckford, not Empress Margaret
> I... I'm very
> sorry to hear that she died in a tunnel collapse, sir, but this
> really isn't
> her."
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:46:59 +0100
From: Andy Coombes <coombes@bcs.org.uk>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!

>I'm not sure what the latest "space rated" CPU is, but at that time it
>was the RCA 1802 (same chip used in the *ancient* "ELF" computer
>training kits from the 70s).

The 1750A is used by ESA, I believe. Designed by committee, and it shows.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:43:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Zot!

In mail you write:

> Not really.  Masers have the problem that they have relatively poor beam 
> cohesion, unless your projector is extremely large, and that 'cooking the 
> pilot' is absurdly simple to protect against.
>
> There is some question as to whether a true weapons-grade laser (or maser) 
> is even possible in atmosphere; high intensity lasers ionize air, making it 
> opaque.  This is the advantage of a PAW in atmosphere -- ionization is a 
> _bonus_ for them.

Since when is ionization a bonus for a PAW? 

> The most likely thing to kill manned aircraft is increased viability of 
> unmanned aircraft.

Yep.

Though this won't happen to miltary spacecraft. Remote control isn't
practical above a few thousand km seperataton between controller and
vehicle.
 
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:48:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Space Opera?

In mail you write:

>>> Well,  Kiri, the big problem is that you won't find a whole lot of support
>>> for Traveller as space opera here on the list. If you corner most folks
>>> 'round here, they'll deny it vehemently. Personally, I don't disagree with
>>> you too much, but there are still folks who cling to Traveller as some 
> sort
>>> of hard sci-fi.
>
>>The canon, the background, is pure space opera.  That doesn't mean it's
>>NOT hard SF.  You can have space opera without psionics, and with
>>gearheads.
>
> I've realized that Space Opera doesn't have a very good definition.  To
> some it is highly cinematic, soft science (banking space fighters "Lensmen
> type") SF.  To other is simply means that you have things that don't exist
> in modern society (FTL Travel, psionics, etc.).  Whether Traveller is Space
> Opera depends on your definition.

Actually, the original definition was fairly clear. It included the
Lensman series, the Skylark series, Campbell's later Arcot, Morey &
Wade stories, etc.

Basicly you had to have "grand sweep" (ie worrying about whole
civilizations, not mere worlds), larger than life characters, and
ususally escalating superweapon vs superweapon duels between the good
guys and the bad guys. 

Star Wars is the only *modern* Space Opera I can think of. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:56:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Amorphous Aliens

In mail you write:

> One thing I've always thought was "cool but hard to swallow" in SF is
> amorphous aliens.  Has anyone used something akin to these in their TU? 
>
> To my mind there are two basic types of these:  The ameboid and the
> doppleganger.  Star Frontiers' Dralasites were a fun but silly version of
> the first type, while Odo from ST:DS9 is probably the most well-known
> second type. Ameboids can change shape and maybe texture or color to a
> limited degree but cannot imitate other beings or objects convincingly. 
> Dopplegangers are more flexible and can mimic things with high fidelity.
>
> IMO, the latter type are a little too "science-fantasy" for a Traveller
> setting, but I've been toying with the idea of introducing an ameboid race
> to MTU.  My problem is coming up with a reasonable evolutionary course for
> their development.  

I'm reminded of a reviewer's comments about a collection of Ron
Goulart's "Chameleon Corps" stories. "People, animals, even plants, I'm
willing to give him. But when he starts turning into *furniture*,
that's going too far!"

Frankly, any remotely realistic ameboid has to be restrict to roughly
the same volume (+/- maybe 25%). And they shouldn't be able to change
*mass* at all. 

Odo routinely violates the hell out of these limits, as do many other
shapeshifters. And all I can say is "Sorry, you *have* to follow those
rules or be using magic."

> As evolution proceeded, the workers would lose much of the "baggage" 
> needed to operate as individual entities, becoming essentially small cell
> masses with the ability to interlock with others in various configurations
> depending on the signals reaching them.  In order for intelligence to
> develop, the queen would have to become a massively hypertrophied thing
> with the brain integral to her alone, I think.  She would also become the
> seat of primary metabolic function and so on, sending out nutrients to the
> cell-masses that make up her body. 

Actually, you should look into what used to be called "slime molds".
These are organisms consisting of multiple cells, except the cell
bodies don't have a cell membrane. Instead, the nuclei share a common
pool of protoplasm. 

Slime molds are capable of motion, and rather blur the boundary between
single celled and multi-celled organisms. They share a single "cell
body", but have multiple nuclei. And they get quite large. I'm pretty
sure they can get up to an ounce or so (30+ grams). 

Give them the right sort of environment, and a lack of predators (which
is likely the major limit on their growth currently), and they might
eventually evolve into something like Odo.

Even if they don't, a slime mold that massed many kilos would be scary
enough even if it wasn't any brighter than a bug. Step in this "puddle"
and the slime swarms up your legs and starts digesting you even before
it finishes enveloping you. Add the ability to secrete some sort of
numbing or paralyzing agent (maybe both) and you've got a nasty.

Which reminds me of an interesting organism from one of Schmitz's
Telzey Amberdon stories. It immobilizes it's prey and slowly consumes
it. It turns out the organism has a minor psi sense, which enables it
to know what parts can be eliminated, how to "simplify" the prey as it
eats (ie seal off the blood vessels to sections it is eating). 

It's a nasty because it sees no reason to turn off the brain of the
critter, nor to introduce any sort of pain killers. It does prevent the
prey from going into shock. 

In the story, someone "fed" an enemy to one of these critters as
revenge for something. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:19:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re Traveller and the modern era

In mail you write:

> Also, no one knows just how far current trends in technology will continue.
> Many existing technologies are still 10 years from common adoption; cost,
> social factors, and environmental issues prevent implementation in many
> cases (forex: Gallium Arsenide chips (environmental), <0.2 micron masking
> techniques for semiconductors (cost), RISC based computing in the WinTel
> world (social, due to the Microsoft near-monoply and not supporting moves
> to non-x86 architechtures, which are incremental evolutions of a 1970's
> base architechture)). Somehow, I doubt we'll actually hit vingean
> singularity before we have off-world populations.

On the other hand, it'd take a major miracle level breakthrough to get
people to another star before we hit the Singularity. Or a *major*
disaster to hold back advances, but not the ability of people to spread
out. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1230
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